We had a discussion in the BA Chat Room this afternoon about “kids in wow” due to Anna’s post.
[13:14] TheRatshag: but as a parent, I wouldn’t want her in some of the guilds I belong to
[13:14] maerdred: lol ratters
[13:14] TemerityJane: wut?
[13:14] TheRatshag: and I wouldn’t want her raiding
[13:14] TemerityJane: not even with AC??!?
[13:14] TemerityJane: ahahahahaaaa
[13:14] maerdred: he did say “some of” TJ
[13:15] TheRatshag: definitely not in AC
[13:15] TheRatshag: not ’til she’s a few years older
[13:15] ForksOfTheSalad: Rat – I’m with you
[13:15] ForksOfTheSalad: Some of the convos that go on in guild chat….
[13:15] ForksOfTheSalad: yehhhh
[13:16] TheRatshag: exactly. She could handle them, but I’d just as soon she not have to bother
[13:16] toomanyannas: yeah – TRI isn’t exactly kid friendly
[13:17] toomanyannas: not that there’s a lot of profanity (at least not directed at each other, some people use various obscenities as descriptive adjectives), but sometimes the innuendos get a little thick
It made me think of RD and our G-Rating. Below is a reprint of a post one of RD’s founding members made on Profane Language and our banning it from the guild.
1. We should all be proud of our Guild and our Guild members, not embarrassed by them. We do not know who is participating on the other end of all the chat screens and vent speakers. We have people from other countries, people with children, people with parents, and people with other people in their rooms. No Raging Daisy should ever have to grimace in embarrassment because of something another Daisy says, no Parent should ever have to be forced to give an explanation to their child that “these friends don’t speak well”, and no younger Guildie should risk their parents banning them from this game because of a fellow Raging Daisy.
2. According to most martial traditions, swearing is an outward sign of an inward deficiency. In particular, it shows lack of self-control. Take that statement personally or not…it is the historical reality, and it is presented constructively. Generations of martial combat taught very wise people that if their opponent can not control their language, then they have a weakness that should be exploited; that weakness is their inability to control their natural instincts. You might question the analogy between our game and a martial tradition, but I believe there are more similarities then differences. Whether our members realize it or not, they evidence a deeper understanding of the warrior tradition then most, just by the path they walked down to become Raging Daisies.
3. There are only a precious few things that will hold a guild together. In some cases it is the loot and prestige that comes with raiding high end instances. In our case, while the camaraderie that we have bled for on the battlefield brought us together, it is our principles that will keep us together. If you don’t understand this paragraph, or our principles, then you may not belong in the Raging Daisies – go in peace. As an example, look at the fragmentation caused by this simple issue of acceptable language; If we don’t share common principles, we can not stand united, because one side will always be unhappy. There is a reason why we gather around ourselves like-minded individuals, and this circumstance helps us to understand why. Suffice it to say, it is our principles that bind us together, and membership in the Raging Daisies will at times involve sacrifice for the good of these principles and the team.
In the final analysis though, the Raging Daisies are a guild of peers. Feel free to speak up and voice your support or differences here.
Aloe, Raging Daisies
Aloe, again made a post in response to an application to join our guild. The Applicant had answered our question about ability to follow our G-Rating with “No Flippin Problem” and one of our officers took offense to it. Another guild member complained that we were being too strict, and I can agree on that, but Aloe’s well-written post makes one think.
The question is context. Tell a child to say “flip” by itself and they won’t get in trouble. Tell them to say to a teacher; “go flip yourself”, and that child will be taking the walk to the principals office. Tell a child to say something like “no flippin way”, or “flip-no”, and they will definitely be flirting with a phone call to the parents.
People for whom G-rated language is important don’t get comfort from others inventing substitute swear words…it evokes a similar discomforting effect, you may as well just use the word itself. You don’t have to understand why its discomforting to just simply respect that it is.
In the same way, there are other types of words used very commonly throughout this game that in and of themselves aren’t necessarily “bad” such as “rape” and “bitch”. But these words can be downright hurtful to some people who understand the real meanings as a lot more then “just a word some kid uses because they’ve never been personally faced with its effect”.
This is not a “turn on your language filter” issue, its deeper then that. A real responsibility was felt to provide an environment where an unknown parent could let their child play, where a father could play while leaving his speakers on and where a mother could be proud that maybe their child was being exposed to people worthy of spending time with their child.
It’s “just a game”, sure, but that’s way to easy to say, and the truth is a lot more complicated; it’s also where real people spend real time interacting and learning and growing in different ways. We influence each other in this game, usually in small ways of course, and that influence can be positive or negative.
Given that people are impacted by their time here, there are officers who would not put their name on this effort if it doesn’t represent themselves and their values; these officers wouldn’t spend a single minute of their time building something that they couldn’t be proud of. For myself, I thought a lot about those unknown parents allowing their kids to play in this guild; I always felt that if I were to meet a parent, I did not want to have to be ashamed of the organization that I had put my name on, and which held real influence over their child’s time and behavior.
These responsibilities may be the furthest thing away from your mind, as is perfectly reasonable; until you put your name on something and personally stand behind its quality, you aren’t really on the hook for its results. But I do think that many RD Officers feel this responsibility and sense of integrity in a very real way, and they need your support on it.
This is why the issue of “respect” comes into play. You don’t have to share someones values to respect that they exist. This guild is the one place I’ve experienced in the game where people generally act like adults, and treat people with respect. The reason this guild is somewhat unique in that regard is simply because the officers have drawn lines, and taken stands on this very issue, often in the face of unpopularity.
Perhaps all this rationale isn’t clear, or perhaps you just don’t care. If you guys do care though, it would be nice if [name withheld] could simply acknowledge the issue, modify his post very slightly, and if everyone could simply move forward maintaining a degree of respect for the values that the guild was founded on.
I would go one step further though, and say that you all have earned the right to be proud that your guild IS a great place for impressionable people to spend time in; you can hold your head high knowing that if you ever find yourself having that face-to-face with a parent, that the parent will have been fortunate to have had you in their corner.
I’d say he does a great job sticking up for his principles, and he’s a large reason why I try to keep profanity to a minimum, especially in a game such as WoW. You never know who’s on the other end of the line reading /g chat or listening to Vent.
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